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WTF Merlin?

Guess that makes it alright, then. ;)
Exactly. Merlin are a big company they don't need sympathy. They signed the contract. If it didn't require the product to not be gone off they are to blame. Assuming it did, they are to blame for not enforcing it. Honestly why is anyone trying to let a massive company off the hook for serving out of date products on their premises.
Hixee: Not alright in the slightest, but also not really their fault if it is true.

MannekenPis: (IF) it is true, the way it has been explained to me by a coke rep themselves, Merlin won't even be aware the product is out of date, as they're not allowed to touch the machines themselves.

To be clear though, I was told this in the first few years of the freestyle rollout, so it may well have been a temporary thing whilst CCEPP got the system up and running. I don't know, but I will find out for sure if it's still the case very soon, as I'm due a meeting with our rep.
 
Hixee: Not alright in the slightest, but also not really their fault if it is true.

MannekenPis: (IF) it is true, the way it has been explained to me by a coke rep themselves, Merlin won't even be aware the product is out of date, as they're not allowed to touch the machines themselves.

To be clear though, I was told this in the first few years of the freestyle rollout, so it may well have been a temporary thing whilst CCEPP got the system up and running. I don't know, but I will find out for sure if it's still the case very soon, as I'm due a meeting with our rep.
But that is entirely their fault for agreeing to this situation, I can't fathom how you can think merlin bare no responsibility here. Armed coke representatives didn't just turn up and install dispensers against Merlin's will (lovely image, the cartels moving into a namesake product).
 
But that is entirely their fault for agreeing to this situation, I can't fathom how you can think merlin bare no responsibility here. Armed coke representatives didn't just turn up and install dispensers against Merlin's will (lovely image, the cartels moving into a namesake product).
Where exactly did I say they have no responsibility? I said they may not have been aware... At the very least, it's their supplier, so once they're aware of an issue, of course they have a responsibility to act, but they can't act UNTIL they're aware... Common sense surely, you can't act on something until you're aware?

Put it this way, I'm fairly sure Joe Bloggs from CCEPP didn't say to Merlin, "how about we supply the soft drinks, you pay us x amount per year, and we'll keep everything topped up, flowing and well maintained? Oh, but BTW, we also won't be binning any product if it isn't shifting fast enough, we'll just pass it off to your customers. Just sign on the dotted line..." Although I could be wrong. 🫣😂

Anyway, let me try and find out if that is even still the case before we debate it, might not be the case anymore, and they may well be entirely responsible themselves.
 
Where exactly did I say they have no responsibility? I said they may not have been aware... At the very least, it's their supplier, so once they're aware of an issue, of course they have a responsibility to act, but they can't act UNTIL they're aware... Common sense surely, you can't act on something until you're aware?
I can see the rock-and-a-hard-place of the perspective you're taking - truly I can.

But I also think that if you're subcontracting some element of your operations to a third party, then you still do have the ultimate responsibility over the quality of the service they're providing.

In my line of work - where I/we regularly subcontract packages of work out to external entities - if it was shown that one of those third parties had fallen short of their agreements that it would be "me" ("me" in the loose sense of the word in that it would be "the company I work for") who would be ultimately be responsible to the customer/client for that shortcoming. The customer/client has recourse against "me" as the one providing the service to them. If I subsequently take action against the subcontractor, that's not the customer/client's concern.

It might not be Merlin's fault (from a root cause perspective), but it is Merlin's problem in the first instance. It's surely Merlin's responsibility to check and 'audit' (for lack of a better word) their subcontractors to deliver on their agreements?

Or maybe I'm misunderstanding the point you're making...? More than happy to be educated in this - I'm applying an engineering consultant's view to a service industry problem - maybe the approach is different?
 
I can see the rock-and-a-hard-place of the perspective you're taking - truly I can.

But I also think that if you're subcontracting some element of your operations to a third party, then you still do have the ultimate responsibility over the quality of the service they're providing.

In my line of work - where I/we regularly subcontract packages of work out to external entities - if it was shown that one of those third parties had fallen short of their agreements that it would be "me" ("me" in the loose sense of the word in that it would be "the company I work for") who would be ultimately be responsible to the customer/client for that shortcoming. The customer/client has recourse against "me" as the one providing the service to them. If I subsequently take action against the subcontractor, that's not the customer/client's concern.

It might not be Merlin's fault (from a root cause perspective), but it is Merlin's problem in the first instance. It's surely Merlin's responsibility to check and 'audit' (for lack of a better word) their subcontractors to deliver on their agreements?

Or maybe I'm misunderstanding the point you're making...? More than happy to be educated in this - I'm applying an engineering consultant's view to a service industry problem - maybe the approach is different?
Nope, you understand, and you're spot on. I never, at any point suggested that Merlin had nothing to answer to, I simply said they may not have been aware. (And, at the risk of repeating myself, my information there may even be out of date.)

However, in this context, I do think that the hospitality and retail sector is a little different to your sector. As an extreme example, probably too far at the other end of the scale from your contractor example, but here goes anyway... If a shop is selling faulty products, you don't place all of the blame on the shopping center / mall? Likewise if a restaurant is making people ill, you don't blame the food court.

You do expect the food court / mall to take action and evict / intervene if their tenants are bringing their own business / space into disrepute though. Once they are aware.

That's what Merlin parks have become these days, malls and food courts... They rent out the space, other companies provide the service and product... Food, drink, midway games, even entertainment nowadays, all subbed out.

I don't mean to excuse them, because it's still ultimately their choice to operate like this, and customers won't necessarily know any different. To many, bad food at Alton Towers is purely the fault of Alton Towers, not Aramark... A prize from a stall at Thorpe Park that falls apart is the fault of Thorpe Park, not HBL Leisure... Customers don't know or care about the ins and outs of any contractual arrangements, and nor should they... So ultimately, it falls at Merlin's feet... But what I was saying, and I still am, is that Merlin 'may not' have been aware, and the real test is how they deal with things like this when they are made aware...

...Anyway... Maybe the OOD stock was just being trialled ;)😂😂😂

Also, as another aside, Schweppes only uses best before dates. It's perfectly legal and safe to sell products past their best before dates. Best before dates are a guarantee of quality up until that date, not an indication of food safety at all. In retail the retailer must inform the customer of the date before they make the decision to buy, then the customer assumes responsibility for the quality of the product. In catering / hospitality, that isn't the case, the chef / management / staff make the decision on quality, and assume that responsibility. It's still very very bad practice though, it's underhand, and most customers would neither understand, or appreciate it, if they were to find this to be the case. I only mention it as many people are not aware of the difference between best before and use by.


Again, not defending them, I'd never use food past it's best before in my own food business, purely because I know how people would feel about it... But I'm just playing devils advocate and trying to ensure this kind of information is known.
 
Fair enough, apologies I misunderstood what you were saying.
No worries at all. :) You're 100% right to question somebody you see as blindly defending a giant corporation, especially one that rarely seems to have it's customer's best interests at heart. Just as it's right to call out anybody who goes the other way and is obsessively over-critical of everything a company does, like they have some ulterior motive.

I will report back after I've seen the rep, as it will be interesting to find out if it is still the case, or if it was just for the initial launch and bedding in period. I'm intrigued now... And if it turns out CCEPP are still responsible for the machines entirely, I'm gonna show him those screenshots and give him stick... 😂😂😂
 
I don't mean to excuse them, because it's still ultimately their choice to operate like this, and customers won't necessarily know any different. To many, bad food at Alton Towers is purely the fault of Alton Towers, not Aramark... A prize from a stall at Thorpe Park that falls apart is the fault of Thorpe Park, not HBL Leisure... Customers don't know or care about the ins and outs of any contractual arrangements, and nor should they... So ultimately, it falls at Merlin's feet... But what I was saying, and I still am, is that Merlin 'may not' have been aware, and the real test is how they deal with things like this when they are made aware...
All good - this is understood. Not having a go at you specifically. :P

The bit in bold is the crux of the matter, as far as I'm concerned. :)
 
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