Who would go to Six Flags Quiddiya?

[SimonProD]

Interestested in seeing who would go Six Flags Quiddiya. I for one don't see it in the near future for personal political reasons - won't dive into those, for not having craft beer with a coaster trip and most possibly the heat.

 

[JackFish]

I would, except I'm 15 so it'll be a while before I can afford it and my parents don't think its a safe area. Which is true, but Ill do anything for the creds.

 

[Projektion]

I completely undestand the moral/ethical issues on travelling to SA and completely respect peoples opinions on not wanting to go or to give money to this country, however I will be going to do it when it opens, morals be damned.

 

[TPoseOnTantrum]

My friends and I are banking on late 2025 since I don't foresee anything being open 12 months from now. Probs going to do two days at Qiddiya for the park and waterpark, plus an additional two days in Riyadh to go credit hunting. There's been some interest in going to ride the Pax Cobra in Dammam (and the local Axis if it's ready by then), but if it's too inconvenient then we may forgo it.

 

[James F]

As a bisexual man definitely not and considering other human rights violations concerning women and people of other faiths. It's place I will be avoiding for the foreseeable.

 

[CanobieFan]

I'd say no just as it's not really a place i see myself going in general? But if given the chance, It'd hard to say no, and I kinda do feel bad for feeling that way. Honestly if it wasn't for a Falcon I would care far less....I don't even think it looks *good* but that 500 foot airtime hill is tempting AF.

 

[I'veGotFourB&MsInMyGarden]

As a few others have already said it's quite an inconvenient place to get to. However if given the chance I would probably say yes. FF just looks so weird and unlike anything else out there. The rest of the park also looks like it'll have a pretty good supporting line-up. If it was convenient and the stars aligned for whatever reason, I'd quite like to go. But it's undeniable that SA is a pretty controversial place that's done some pretty controversial things say the least...

 

[EmmaUK]

Well, certainly not on a solo trip. But if I was with a group and it was a stop off on part of a wider trip, it'd be hard to just sit at the border and wait. And obviously I have grave concerns about its sexist anti-LGBT leadership, but I can't be hypocritical as I went to the US under Trump (and will do again when he gets back in in 2024)

 

[Gavin]

Yeah, I'll probably end up going. As much as I could sit here and list off human rights issues, I've been to plenty of other countries with far from ideal track records, but I guess they're not as well known, or people don't care as much about them.

I had absolutely no idea that Uzbekistan, as one example, had such a poor human rights record until after I'd been, enjoyed it immensely, and looked into it after I'd got back.

I'm not saying that anyone here is doing it, but it's also very easy to care about human rights when it comes to a place you'd be unlikely to go to regardless. The Facebook thoosie groups are full of "I would never go there!" posts from people without passports.

 

[Matt N]

It’s a tough one, and I think it’s up to the individual to decide whether they feel they can look past the human rights record of Saudi Arabia as a country.

What I would say, however, is that I think it’s very hard to be a truly ethical traveller. If you rule out ever visiting any country in the world that has done something slightly shady in terms of human rights, then you’re ruling out a surprisingly large percentage of the world’s countries. And I think there’s also a question of; where do you draw the line?

• The UAE does not exactly have a glowing human rights record, with numerous laws in place restricting women and LGBT+ people, but plenty of enthusiasts still go there.
• China is run by an authoritarian government that has previously resorted to tactics such as physically barricading people in their homes during COVID and attempting to invade Hong Kong (I think?), and imposes all kinds of draconian restrictions on its citizens’ lives, but plenty of enthusiasts still go there.
• I know that Russia is very much off the radar for travel at the moment due to their ongoing invasion of Ukraine, but even before that, Putin’s Russia did not exactly have a brilliant human rights and political record. The country is run by an authoritarian government that heavily restricts its citizens’ lives and has even gone as far as invading Crimea and various other territories prior to the current invasion of Ukraine. Despite this, I know of enthusiasts who have been to Russia to visit its theme parks (or at least did prior to the invasion of Ukraine).

And even if you look at Western countries:

• Poland had a staunchly anti-LGBT administration until very recently, and plenty of enthusiasts still go there without a moment’s hesitation.
• The USA has previously had an anti-LGBT administration under Trump, a number of the country’s states have recently outlawed abortion following the overturning of Roe v Wade, and around 50% of its states still have the death penalty as of June 2023, but plenty of enthusiasts still go there without a moment’s hesitation and indeed did under Trump.
• You could argue that the UK doesn’t have a perfect human rights record. Our government is actively pursuing a policy of deporting illegal immigrants to Rwanda, which has been deemed inhumane by many and was even recently deemed illegal by the Supreme Court. Despite this, our Tory government seems very keen to push it through and potentially leave the European Court of Human Rights to do so. Plenty of enthusiasts still come to the UK without a moment’s hesitation.

I get that Saudi Arabia has done things on a different scale to some of the other countries I’ve mentioned, but my point is; where do you draw the line? It’s arguably nigh on impossible to be a truly ethical traveller, so what level of human rights infractions are people willing to accept?

 

[Esther7]

It's obvious that I wouldn't go to that country for anything else, but to visit the park. The country disgusts me, but as they have already said here, there are other unethical countries that I have already been to and we shouldn't be hypocritical.

Of course I wouldn't go alone, but I would love to ride Falcon's Flight one day. So if anyone wants to organize a trip in the future, you can contact me.

 

[Rob Coasters]

It would very much be a "ride the coasters then leave" type deal for me. I mean, I already do that with some countries, even ones that I actively really enjoy, because I only ever allow enough time there to visit the parks. In fact I focus on the parks so much I never planned on visiting the Gothenburg city centre on my 3 day Liseberg trip, and only went after my brother convinced me to do so! It was nice though, good change in pace.

 

[Hyde]

Yeah, I'll probably end up going. As much as I could sit here and list off human rights issues, I've been to plenty of other countries with far from ideal track records, but I guess they're not as well known, or people don't care as much about them.

I had absolutely no idea that Uzbekistan, as one example, had such a poor human rights record until after I'd been, enjoyed it immensely, and looked into it after I'd got back.

I'm not saying that anyone here is doing it, but it's also very easy to care about human rights when it comes to a place you'd be unlikely to go to regardless. The Facebook thoosie groups are full of "I would never go there!" posts from people without passports.

It’s a tough one, and I think it’s up to the individual to decide whether they feel they can look past the human rights record of Saudi Arabia as a country.

What I would say, however, is that I think it’s very hard to be a truly ethical traveller. If you rule out ever visiting any country in the world that has done something slightly shady in terms of human rights, then you’re ruling out a surprisingly large percentage of the world’s countries. And I think there’s also a question of; where do you draw the line?

• The UAE does not exactly have a glowing human rights record, with numerous laws in place restricting women and LGBT+ people, but plenty of enthusiasts still go there.
• China is run by an authoritarian government that has previously resorted to tactics such as physically barricading people in their homes during COVID and attempting to invade Hong Kong (I think?), and imposes all kinds of draconian restrictions on its citizens’ lives, but plenty of enthusiasts still go there.
• I know that Russia is very much off the radar for travel at the moment due to their ongoing invasion of Ukraine, but even before that, Putin’s Russia did not exactly have a brilliant human rights and political record. The country is run by an authoritarian government that heavily restricts its citizens’ lives and has even gone as far as invading Crimea and various other territories prior to the current invasion of Ukraine. Despite this, I know of enthusiasts who have been to Russia to visit its theme parks (or at least did prior to the invasion of Ukraine).

And even if you look at Western countries:

• Poland had a staunchly anti-LGBT administration until very recently, and plenty of enthusiasts still go there without a moment’s hesitation.
• The USA has previously had an anti-LGBT administration under Trump, a number of the country’s states have recently outlawed abortion following the overturning of Roe v Wade, and around 50% of its states still have the death penalty as of June 2023, but plenty of enthusiasts still go there without a moment’s hesitation and indeed did under Trump.
• You could argue that the UK doesn’t have a perfect human rights record. Our government is actively pursuing a policy of deporting illegal immigrants to Rwanda, which has been deemed inhumane by many and was even recently deemed illegal by the Supreme Court. Despite this, our Tory government seems very keen to push it through and potentially leave the European Court of Human Rights to do so. Plenty of enthusiasts still come to the UK without a moment’s hesitation.

I get that Saudi Arabia has done things on a different scale to some of the other countries I’ve mentioned, but my point is; where do you draw the line? It’s arguably nigh on impossible to be a truly ethical traveller, so what level of human rights infractions are people willing to accept?

Well said by @gavin and @Matt N. If it takes Six Flags Qiddiya and building a coaster into a literal mountain to teach coaster enthusiasts about the human cost of exploited labor, government sponsorship, and the downright nihilistic nature of the tourism industry - absolutely great, and glad folks are more prevy to the sweat equity that goes into these types of massive projects.

And at the same time, we need to appreciate the similar practice that was employed in building (and continuing to build) Abu Dhabi/Dubai/Chinese theme parks and attractions (also often laborers sourced from India, poor African nations, or other exploitive practice same as Saudi Arabia) and conservative practice governments where other often-sought-after amusement parks operate (Poland, conservative U.S. states, etc.). It's a tricky business to sort out one's morals with one's hobbies and passions, especially to the question of given the choice/free trip to ride Falcon's Flight: "If I visit Six Flags Qiddiya, am I complicit?" To @gavin's point, it's also easy enough to aggrandize that "I would never visit" when there is close to 0% chance of your actually visiting.

All of which is to say; given the chance to visit Six Flags Qiddiya, I would make the trek. This "chance" to visit would most likely be due to work travel, just as my trip to Abu Dhabi earlier this year yielded the opportunity. And yes, it's ok to feel a little torn/weird about differing cultural value. Still, I'm also here to say one amusement park has little-to-zero ramifications for the political discourse of Saudi Arabia. You might be surprised (as I was) to find a quite different culture (in a good way) than what you expected: exploitive work labor practice, conservative societal practice, and all. Abu Dhabi was just this experience, which proved to be a far more international, progressive culture than what typical American perspective is of "the Middle East". But as a regular tourist, Saudi Arabia is not on the radar, if not for the sheer cost and time it takes to travel half-way across the world.

 

[MaxxForceFan]

People need to realize this park is not being developed for them. Also, where is this misspelling with the added u coming from? It is Qiddiya.

https://investors.sixflags.com/news-and-events/press-releases/2018/04-04-2018-220015471

The Public Investment Fund of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia said, “The entertainment sector has an important role to play in the transformation of Saudi Arabia’s economy. The Six Flags-branded theme park in Riyadh and other similar developments will create new employment opportunities and harness the talent, energy and imagination of Saudi youth. Our investment in this sector is in line with our mission and delivers on a key element of Vision 2030.”

Michael Reininger, Chief Executive of Qiddiya, commented, “Our goal is to create an exciting one-of-a-kind destination that will draw visitors from throughout Saudi Arabia to experience record-breaking roller coasters, innovative rides and attractions, as well as the sporting and cultural facilities that Qiddiya will offer. By partnering with a global leader, we know that we are going to deliver something exceptional.”

 

[SimonProD]

• Poland had a staunchly anti-LGBT administration until very recently, and plenty of enthusiasts still go there without a moment’s hesitation.
• The USA has previously had an anti-LGBT administration under Trump [...]

Agreed. And already planning for USA Texas and Georgia next year. Poland hopefully will get on the way to get better if Donald Tusk will lead the next government - but the PIS president is still trying to deflect. Also hope that someday Erdogan will be voted from the center seat in Turkey...

I voted "Maybe" but not in the very near future. Will have to see how that toursim thing in Saudi Arabia turns out and how harsh they will be with their religious laws in tourist areas. But if I'd be gay etc I'd surely vote "No Way!"

 

[James F]

And even if you look at Western countries:

• Poland had a staunchly anti-LGBT administration until very recently, and plenty of enthusiasts still go there without a moment’s hesitation.
• The USA has previously had an anti-LGBT administration under Trump, a number of the country’s states have recently outlawed abortion following the overturning of Roe v Wade, and around 50% of its states still have the death penalty as of June 2023, but plenty of enthusiasts still go there without a moment’s hesitation and indeed did under Trump.

This has given me some thought. Prior to going to Poland last year I had no knowledge of the anti LGBTQ+ government until my return. If I would of known perhaps I would of had reservations about going, but yet I can't deny that I had a great time while I was there. So I won't judge anyone for wanting to go there or any other country for that matter.

For me I just would feel uncomfortable, but it's for the same reasons I wouldn't go to the UAE or China. Even if I am perfectly safe I don't want to support countries that have governments which I completely oppose.

Western Europe and North America do also admittedly have issues, but for me there not in the same league, is it for self-centred reasons? perhaps, but just like everyone I have a bias.

Regarding if Saudi Arabia was closer and more affordable would I be more tempted? I doubt it, but I guess we'll never know.

 

[Nitefly]

Over 30 million people live in Saudi Arabia. They have a completely different culture and heritage to the comparatively liberal ‘western world’.

Everyone is a product of their culture. Common values are typically institutional and systemic. Things which might seem very obvious to us might seem very abhorrent to them and vice versa. Yes, it would be very wonderful if they were to suddenly adopt broadly equivalent ‘western values’, and it is very sad that some people are not treated with the dignity and respect they obviously deserve, but as much as I’m fully behind those sentiments it definitely doesn’t extend to dismissing the entire country and population as it is.

I think I probably would go. It’s not the top of my list but would certainly be an interesting experience, as different cultures always are. Make the most of it, go to AlUla etc. The park itself would be very surreal and certainly a memory.

However, I appreciate that others may not want to go because of their personal safety, which I’ll readily acknowledge is an issue that I’m very privileged (for lack of a better word) to not have.

For what it’s worth, I know a gay person that went to the World Cup in Qatar and had a great time. Obviously, he had to be very mindful and that’s something that others (acting reasonably) might not be willing to do.

 

[Leon_K]

I agree with many of the above comments. Human rights get violated in a lot of countries, but SA is a step up. I would not be interested in going, for moral and ethical reasons, but I do understand that some of you go and experience this very special project.

To me personally there's also a second reason to not travel up there. Because I look at it as a money wasting project purely build as prestige, I am actually not really interested in the project. So that makes it an easy choice to not waste a lot of money on the trip out there.

 

[chainedbanana]

As a gay person - I'd have to think carefully! And acknowledge that I'm quite hypocritical i.e. I really want to do all the Poland creds, and really want to visit Puy de Foy despite being run by right wingers ....oh and do the Sea Worlds despite not agreeing with large aquatic animals in captivity.... so you know.....I'm a stupid human!

One point with SA is at least I can 'follow the rules' and not 'act on or flaunt' my sexuality - but I have trans friends - who don't have the privilege of being able to 'pretend to be XYZ' or 'dull down' and who if discovered could be jailed just for existing'. Similarly to female safety/quality.

It's food for thought and never easy!

 

[Sandman]

Personally I'm not that bothered about visiting. Not particularly a political decision, but I'd sooner tick off more parks in the US, Asia and a few remaining decent parks in Europe I've still not got round to.

I can appreciate the worry and trepidation that members LGBTQ+ would have in visiting, however, the amount of incredibly unethical and questionable things UK/US (and many, many other countries) have done over the years makes me feel pretty hypocritical to single out Saudi in terms of a boycott. I just don't have much interest in visiting the place as it currently stands.